Meet
the Flipsters
Conversations
on the Bridge |
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A Conversation with Dr. Ervin
Laszlo
(The complete Flip interview, with only minor edits,
not found in the book)
NOT IN BOOK – Bio References:
http://www.wie.org/bios/ervin-laszlo.asp
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/3/emw222270.htm
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st/002-4873064-6185614?page=1&rh=n%3A1000%2Cp_27%3AErvin+Laszlo&sort=daterank&x=7&y=14
Dr. Ervin Laszlo is a venerable legend in systems
theory, specifically credited with establishing both
systems philosophy and general evolution theory. A
long-time member of the influential Club of Rome and
founder of the elite Club of Budapest, Dr. Laszlo
also belongs to several academies of science and philosophy.
He is a prolific author with hundreds of articles
and nearly seventy books to his credit. Included among
works that Ervin authored or coauthored are such intriguing
titles as The Systems View of the World: A Holistic
Vision for our Times, You Can Change the World: The
Global Citizen’s Handbook for Living on Planet
Earth, The Whispering Pond: A Personal Guide to the
Emerging Vision of Science, and Science and the Akashic
Field: An Integral Theory of Everything. Editor of
World Futures: The Journal of General Evolution, and
an advisor to such esteemed institutions as the United
Nations, Dr. Laszlo is also an accomplished pianist
with several recordings.
We asked how such diverse talents and interests have
converged in his work. “Every society or culture
is like a work of art or a piece of music in the sense
that it is an integrated whole,” Ervin responded.
“If something is integral you can’t break
it apart without losing the properties that make it
what it is. I believe that the whole is more than
the sum of the parts, not in a metaphysical sense,
but simply that if you break apart the whole you lose
all of the essential qualities that make it an integrated
system.”
Doesn’t that conflict with the reductionistic
tendencies of modern science? “All traditional
cultures are holistic cultures; it’s natural.
I see systems theory as a recovery of something that
we had lost. I think the deviation – hopefully
a temporary deviation – was this extreme reductionistic
thinking. Even Isaac Newton, who was one of the fathers
of mechanistic thinking, talked about harmonious laws,
and Johannes Kepler talked about celestial harmonics,
and so on. We lost that holistic perspective when
science began to break apart systems to see how the
parts behave, to reduce things to the smallest identifiable
component, examine the relations between those elements,
and reconstruct them. Unfortunately, it turns out
that with a system of even minor complexity –
anything more complex than a bicycle – it’s
almost impossible to put it all back exactly the way
it was. You can’t even take apart a cell and
expect to be able to put it back together again.
“Reductionist/mechanistic/analytic thinking
served its purpose because it did away with a lot
of the metaphysical speculations of the 19th century.
But to persist in it is simply to throw the baby out
with the bath water. We are left with a very impoverished,
conceptual universe in which we’re just loose
parts running around and people don’t know how
these parts could have ever gotten together to create
the universe in which we live. We need a holistic,
integral view – a high-level view that includes
the complexities and the details, instead of disregarding
them. We’re continuing to move forward –
but recovering elements that we have lost. We’re
keeping the precision but losing the sophistry that
says, ‘Oh, we can just take everything apart
and then recreate it from the pieces upward.’”
So there is a flip underway? “We are witnessing
a transformation of civilization,” replied Ervin.
“The mechanistic, market-based, egoistic, and
reductionistic civilization of the past century is
no longer sustainable. It must change. It’s
not a question of whether it will. It’s a question
of whether it will change smoothly, with some sense
of our controlling and directing the nature of the
change, or whether it will change abruptly and chaotically.
Our civilization is moving in a direction that requires
us to take action in order to avoid negative consequences
as the outcome of this ‘chaos point.’
The processes that have unfolded can no longer be
controlled; they are undergoing what is – more
euphemistically – being called ‘abrupt
change.’
“This dynamic of systemic change repeats over
and over again. It repeats in nature. It repeats in
the physical level and on the chemical, biological,
social, and psychological levels. Wherever we look
in history, we can observe changes that, for awhile,
could be tolerated and compensated for. But suddenly
the processes reached a critical point where they
either broke down or had to fundamentally change…
and that’s the point toward which we’re
heading now.
“Until recently, such adaptations have followed
a learning curve that spanned several generations.
Now the pace of change is such that we – this
generation – have to work the whole thing out.
And we have to work it out consciously. We can’t
wait for the consequences. This is unprecedented.
“Equally unprecedented is the scope of the
impending chaos point. Previously, these changes were
occurring on a local, regional or at most national
level. The primary impact was to a fairly isolated
element, around which other elements of the larger
system could recover. But now we are far too interdependent
for that on all levels. A major breakdown in any one
of our systems – economic, financial, political,
ecological, or cultural – would have immediate
consequences at the planetary level.
“So we are facing a global problem which is
unfolding at a very rapid rate. That is our challenge,
and for this we need global, holistic thinking. It
has become an imperative, a precondition of our collective
survival. What’s required is basically a recovery
of some ancient insight in a new guise, a new form.
It’s an intuitive flash, basically, that is
happening – almost a miracle. Jonas Salk, discoverer
of the polio vaccine, said that spirituality is like
an antibody developed by the immune system of Humanity.
We are developing an antibody that is our hope, our
ray of light, that can lead us past the mounting problems
and the specter of collapse towards a more sustainable
and peaceful, harmonious world. The way this is happening
is by people coming intuitively into spiritual insight.
They’re opening up. Sometimes I feel that my
own work is, in some sense, being guided. This is
an experience that others have also expressed. All
sorts of good coincidences are happening. So I think
there is a spiritual renaissance and it is somehow
facilitated – whether by the human spirit or
some other means, I don’t know. But it is happening.
“A whole plethora of subcultures are already
developing. Some groups may focus upon a certain spiritual
dimension. Others may be oriented toward healthy living,
more holistic views or understanding, a culture of
peace, and so on. These emerging subcultures are still
on the margins. But they will somehow come together
and create some common transformations. There is no
other way. Once the new culture becomes visible, people
will join. More spiritual and creative people are
already on this new wavelength for the most part.
Business has been lagging, but companies are beginning
to sense that they’ve got to change or they
will not be able to maintain themselves. Those who
don’t change will fall behind and become marginalized.
Fortunately, the current generation is much more available
– much more open and accessible – to this
kind of thinking than prior generations have been.”
We asked Ervin how confident he was that Humanity
can rise to the challenge of this impending chaos
point. “It’s not a transformation that
is guaranteed to occur,” he cautioned. “It
is an evolutionary change process. The outcomes are
not predetermined. Right now, it’s primarily
a suspicion, a weak intuition that we’ve got
to change just to be able to continue. But there must
be a fundamental change, first on the level of consciousness,
then on the level of action. We need a fast and relatively
controlled, smooth change in the world so that we
don’t go down in the shock of chaos. We must
master it and create a world that’s worth living
in.”
What can each of us do towards that end? “I
think the very worst course is to do nothing. But
the next worse course is to believe that everything
is going so well that we can just keep on doing what
we have been doing. Humanity is heading for a brick
wall. We’ve got to change direction. It is imperative
that we each participate in the process and pull our
own weight. The key to that participation is the evolution
of our own consciousness. Allow your consciousness
to be penetrated by the sense of belonging to a higher
unit, of being part of something, part of nature,
part of the cosmos – part of the human civilization
on all levels – and become a positive element
in the whole. The flip is coming. We are forming a
single culture. It has to be harmonious one. We have
to understand each other on certain basic things.
We all live together on this planet. And we don’t
have too much time for this, not much time at all.”
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The Flip, by Jared Rosen and David Rippe, illuminates
a clear path to a vibrant enlightened world where
millions of people already live and thrive. It describes
in vivid detail and real examples evidence of an upside
down world in decay and a Right Side Up world of authentic
beings bright with possibility.
The Flip is an owner’s manual for the twenty-first
century full of insights, conversations with recognized
experts, thought leaders, and visionaries, and actionable
exercises and tips you can use to begin your own personal
flip.
To read more about The Flip
and additional interviews from other luminaries, experts
and bestselling authors, please visit www.theflip.net
The Flip is available at your
local bookstore or online at
Amazon.com, Barnes
& Noble, Joseph-Beth,
and Borders.
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