Meet
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Conversations
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A Conversation with Dr. Hazel
Henderson
(The complete Flip interview, with only minor edits,
not found in the book)
Dr. Hazel Henderson (www.hazelhenerson.com)
is a world-renowned futurist, evolutionary economist,
a worldwide syndicated columnist, consultant on sustainable
development, and the author of Beyond Globalization
and seven other books. Her editorials appear in twenty-seven
languages and more than four hundred newspapers syndicated
by InterPress Service.
She told us that her alternative view of economics
was rooted in her childhood environment: “I
grew up in the English countryside, which could make
any kid fall in love with Nature. I also grew up in
a way that was very unusual in this age, in that my
mother grew all of our own food in a plot of about
an acre. It had everything—fruit trees and berry
bushes, corn and asparagus, tomatoes, peas, potatoes,
everything you could imagine. This was during World
War II, when everything was rationed. But Mother could
take us down to the pier to bargain with the fishers,
and we got our milk from a farm nearby. Experiencing
that made me realize that Nature is our prime source
of sustenance. For me, Nature was absolutely magical
and productive and to be worshiped.
“My mother was very loving and she always had
enough love for all four of us. Everybody in our village
loved her because she did all of this volunteer work.
I grew up really admiring my mother and wanting to
be like her. The only thing that was weird was that
– even though my father was an accountant and
had a pretty good salary – my mother was never
allowed to control any money. That led me to an ambition:
How do you empower the loving people? How do you create
a gender-neutral kind of economics which can elevate
caring, cooperative, sharing activities to the same
prominence and rewards that competitive, profit-maximizing,
self-centered activities receive?”
Living as an adult in New York City, Hazel became
politically active out of a concern for her own daughter’s
health. “I started a group in New York City
in 1964 called Citizens for Clean Air because I had
just had a baby and I was really worried about my
little girl getting sick from breathing the air. I
began to ask why corporations were getting away with
pollution. So I started reading books on business
and economics and began to figure out what was wrong
with corporate law. I wrote my first article and sent
it almost as a joke to the Harvard Business Review,
to the only woman on the masthead, with quite a belligerent
letter saying I was a citizen activist and we were
getting laws passed in New York City about not burning
trash, and incinerators, and so on. About three weeks
later, I got a call from the manager editor of the
Harvard Business Review, saying they were going to
publish it. I literally rolled on the floor laughing!
I never went to college.
“Suddenly I found myself launched into this
whole debate about corporate social responsibility.
In the early 70’s when nobody was really thinking
about business ethics, I would be invited to give
lectures at the big business schools. I would always
ask, ‘Don’t you have someone more qualified?
I’m just a citizen activist who wrote a few
articles based on my experience.’ And they would
say, ’Well, no. We don’t actually have
a course on business ethics; it isn’t even an
elective.’ So I figured that I might as well
go and let my little light shine, right?
“Things evolved for me from there. And I’m
thrilled to see corporate responsibility evolving
as well, with full-time corporate responsibility positions
in some of the largest companies. As we’ve moved
to 24/7 worldwide electronic markets, companies realize
their stock price can be broken instantly by making
ethical mistakes that can ruin their precious brand.
I think the driver has been active citizens and media.”
We asked Hazel if she believes short-term thinking
is a flaw inherent to our economic system. “Short-termism
is one of the shortcomings of economic theory. I was
on the advisory council to the U.S. Congress Office
of Technology from 1974 to 1980. We knew all about
global warming back then and I used to say, ‘well
why can’t we get ahead of this? Why do we have
to let this thing unfold?’ It seemed to me that
the information people paid attention to was incomplete
at best. What doesn’t get into the loop is the
value of the environment and ecological assets. And
the value of unpaid caring, sharing work—whether
done by men or women.
“My book The Politics of the Solar Age laid
out the case for a shift from fossil fuels and nuclear
power to sustainable energy sources, renewable recycling,
remanufacturing – all of that. The 1980’s
should have been the decade for this shift, but Ronald
Reagan took office and removed the Carter administration’s
very limited subsidies for these alternative energy
sources. It was so frustrating because everything
was in place! Even if Reagan had followed his own
free market ideology and simply removed existing coal,
oil, and nuclear subsidies, then renewable energy
sources would have been able to compete in a heartbeat.
“I was arguing for the tax code to have oil
depletion taxes instead of oil depletion allowances.
I advocated moving from taxation of incomes and payrolls
to taxation of waste pollution, planned obsolescence,
and virgin material extraction. Twenty years later
we’re still not talking about that kind of tax
shift. The current administration is trying to figure
out what to do with the tax code and going 180 degrees
in the wrong direction.”
Hazel asks a lot of great questions. And increasingly,
she’s not alone. “The drivers are becoming
obvious in our ecosystem—whether it’s
global warming or desertification or sprawl. The issues
of oil and energy dependence are causing people to
connect the dots and ask, ‘Why is America spending
all these hundreds of billions and fighting wars in
the Middle East? How could this not be about oil?’
“The problem is politicians and economists
who are trying to override the public’s common
sense. When I started Citizens for Clean Air, I used
to go on radio and TV shows to debate economists from
energy companies. They would say, ‘Oh, no, we
can’t really afford to do any of the things
that this nice lady wants us to do. She’s a
very nice lady but she doesn’t understand economics.’
And I always answered, ‘Look, I don’t
care how many of these theoretical arguments you put
out to me, you cannot override the senses and common
sense of ordinary people who smell the polluted air,
who can see the dirty water. You can’t override
people’s direct experience.’
“There are other problems with our economic
assumptions, of course. For one thing, I came to realize
how false the Gross National Product (GNP) model of
progress really was. It considered education as money
thrown down the rat hole instead of the most basic
investment we make in our human capital. It carried
human beings at the value of zero, the environment
at zero, and there was overvalue given to bombs and
bullets. It was so completely off the wall.
“I thought, ‘well, nothing is going to
change unless we put out an alternative.’ So
I devised an alternative set of indicators, which
I first published in Paradigms in Progress in 1991.
Basically, these social-value indicators have to be
multi-disciplinary. You cannot turn everything into
economics. And if you’re trying to measure environmental
pollution or air quality, you don’t use money
coefficients, you use parts per million of junk in
the air.
“I traveled all over the world and I would
see in other countries evidence of progress that had
nothing to do with GNP growth. For instance, the streets
in Tokyo were spotless and there was no crime. I remember
being on a subway in Tokyo and leaving my purse; when
I was walking out of the station this lady runs up
to me, puffing, with my purse. How do you measure
these things? Those wonderful trains, a 98 percent
literacy rate, and none of that would figure into
our GNP. In fact, American economists keep going over
to Japan and telling them that they’re making
a mess of everything.
“Economics is a noble profession. But it’s
a stretch to call economics a science. And it can’t
run the whole game. The policy inputs to all departments
of the government, to scientific studies, have to
be multi-disciplinary. And you have to use appropriate
metrics for whatever phenomenon you’re studying.
Step aside and let anthropologists and ecologists
and all kinds of other people get into the policy
game.
“I came up with twelve ‘quality of life’
indicators to counter the GNP methodology. Some could
be measured in terms of money, but most could not.
I decided the key was to produce a holistic score
card of progress for a country and make it very clear,
so that it would be politically transparent, and you
could not in any way aggregate the components into
money coefficients to come up with one insane number.
“It was funny… I was telling Herman
Daley about this systems approach with multiple unbundled
indicators. His objection was, ‘you won’t
get your media sound bite.’ But what happens
if your media sound bite doesn’t illuminate
the public any more than GNP? What I’m trying
to do here is slower and more conscientious. It’s
really public education. Quality of life is holistic
concept.
“Many Americans are already demonstrating an
intuitive understanding of this. Surveys by The Center
for the New American Dream show that 28 percent of
Americans have taken jobs with less salary in order
to improve their quality of life, moving to smaller
towns where their kids can walk to school, the air
is still clean, the community remains intact, and
water quality is still good.”
Are other countries rising above the GNP mentality?
“In Europe, productivity is measured as total
social productivity. When I first went to China in
1986, they were way ahead of us on all kinds of social
indicators. It was the same in Japan, mostly because
they are very holistic cultures. But right now I would
say the leader in all of this is Brazil. Since 1992,
when they hosted the Earth Summit, the whole idea
of sustainable development became indigenized very
quickly. And their statisticians are doing an amazing
job. In October of 2003, Brazil hosted the first international
conference on indicators of sustainability and quality
of life.
“Brazil has even been able to get into dialogue
with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) about correcting
the GNP and Gross Domestic Product (GDP) models. GDP,
as you may know, has no asset account. It’s
a cash flow model. So when taxpayer’s money
is used to invest in infrastructure – new hospitals,
schools, watersheds – that investment is not
carried on the books as a hugely valuable new asset.
It’s simply expensed in the single year. Well,
Brazil is a very urban country, requiring major investment
in sewage treatment plants and other infrastructure.
But initially the IMF was telling them, ‘Oh
no, if you spend all this money on public infrastructure,
it all gets loaded into the public debt that you’re
carrying and it’s just too big.’
“If you needed to build a production facility
– but you couldn’t amortize it, and you
couldn’t carry it on your books as a useful
asset and amortize it over the lifespan of that asset
– you couldn’t run a company. The Brazilian
finance minister made that argument to the IMF, and…
guess what? The IMF backed off.
“I’ve already mentioned the incredible
quality of life in Japan. By current measures, Japan’s
public debt is 160% of GDP. That sounds terrible.
But fully account for Japan’s assets –
the bullet trains and universities, etc – and
you cut that percentage in half. In fact, when this
argument is completely won with the IMF, and GDP accounts
all carry infrastructure assets on the books, it will
cut every country’s indebtedness in half. The
resulting drop in interest rates could release millions
of people from poverty. This is how important statistics
are.”
Does Hazel see a hope for the economic flip? “Well,
I see all kinds of signs of hope. For example, for
the first time, governments are realizing that poverty
gaps have to be closed. There’s no doubt now
in the minds of most people who are governing societies
that a global economy cannot be floating an affluent
group in a sea of misery.
“We lose the game by concentrating on military
power and weapons. We don’t realize that the
game has changed and that it’s all about information
and values now. I think the U.S as a global empire
is probably going to be the shortest run of any empire
in human history.
“For example, the city of Detroit can’t
rely on the U.S. automobile industry now; the Japanese
are running rings around them. But here’s the
most interesting thing: the Chinese are developing
their own automobile industry using all of the European
emission standards. They have partnerships now with
Daimler-Chrysler to produce fuel cell automobiles.
And U.S cars will not be sold in China because they
don’t meet Chinese emission controls. So you
see how we shoot ourselves in the foot over and over
again.
“What’s good for most of humanity is
for a country that isn’t thinking very far ahead
and has regressive policies to be surrounded by other
counties that think in more systemic terms. What you
have now is a group of countries – India, China,
and Brazil – with very new and different thinking
that represents most of the world’s population.
These new power centers are beginning to take charge
and run the debate in the United Nations. They may
actually be better leaders than we have been for the
past few years.
“What I’m personally trying to do is
get the most leverage that I possible can. The way
you get the most leverage on social change is to alter
the ‘source code’ that’s running
the country. As I say, we have a malfunctioning economic
source code. Once you expose that and help people
to understand why it’s driving them over the
cliff, then it’s much easier to get a conversation
going.”
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The Flip, by Jared Rosen and David Rippe, illuminates
a clear path to a vibrant enlightened world where
millions of people already live and thrive. It describes
in vivid detail and real examples evidence of an upside
down world in decay and a Right Side Up world of authentic
beings bright with possibility.
The Flip is an owner’s manual for the twenty-first
century full of insights, conversations with recognized
experts, thought leaders, and visionaries, and actionable
exercises and tips you can use to begin your own personal
flip.
To read more about The Flip
and additional interviews from other luminaries, experts
and bestselling authors, please visit www.theflip.net
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