Meet
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A Conversation with Gary Zukav
(The complete Flip interview, with only minor edits,
not found in the book)
Gary Zukav (www.zukav.com)
has inspired millions with his books, including the
best-selling title The Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview
of the New Physics, which won the American Book Award
for Science. The Seat of the Soul became a number
one New York Times best-seller and remained on the
best-seller list for three years. He also wrote Soul
Stories and coauthored with Linda Francis The Heart
of the Soul: Emotional Awareness and The Mind of the
Soul: Responsible Choice.
Gary represents an unfolding vision of a planet without
conflict, a world that reflects the values of the
soul – harmony, cooperation, sharing, and reverence
for life. “There is a major transformation in
human consciousness now under way”, Gary asserts.
“And when I say major, I’m not talking
about big or bigger than most, I’m talking about
something that’s unprecedented, except for the
very origin of our species.
“This shift in consciousness is affecting millions
of people from every culture in both sexes, every
race, every economic circumstance, and every religion.
It is an expansion of our capability to perceive beyond
the reach of the five senses. And this transformation
is bringing into focus new values and new perceptions
of our reality. We’re beginning to see ourselves
as immortal at the same time that we are walking the
earth as personalities. And we are beginning to see
that this immortal, non-physical part of ourselves
that I call ‘the soul’ is real and it
calls to us.
“In the past we saw power as the ability to
manipulate and to control; to hire people, fire people,
control our children, neighbors, employees, and control
voters, customers, markets, and nations. But this
kind of power that has helped us survive and evolve
– the power to manipulate and control things
that are external – is now counterproductive,
producing only violence and destruction. In other
words, what used to be healthy medicine is now toxic.
In its place, people are beginning to understand power
in an entirely different way, as the alignment of
your personality – the person that was born
into this world – with your soul – the
highest, most evolved, healthy, grounded, and wholesome
part of your self. That, to me, is the spiritual path;
aligning your personality with your soul to create
authentic power.”
An obvious question is how this new kind of power
feels as we use and apply it. Gary comments: “The
experience of authentic power is not other-worldly
or mystical. It’s more than a feeling; it’s
the experience of being fully engaged in your life,
of being in the present moment, excited about what
you’re doing, knowing that you’re alive
for a purpose. You’re doing what you were born
to do. It feels like living without the consciousness
of fear, moving forward in your life with an empowered
heart, and without attachment to the consequences.
That is authentic power: the key to a life of joy,
of meaning, of vitality, of creativity, of health.
That is what we are all being called to now. Not only
is it our potential, we need to grow spiritually in
order to evolve and survive.”
Does this mean that there is a new awakening of the
soul in human consciousness? “You are not a
soul in a body,” Gary clarifies. “The
soul doesn’t step into a body, and then you
are your soul walking around. You are a body in a
soul. Your soul is much, much, much more than you.
Your soul is the simultaneous experience of myriads
of lifetimes. Your soul is a creative force that I
cannot describe to you and you will not be able to
describe to others, but all will re-experience when
we return to non-physical reality. So it’s not
the soul that’s awakening, it’s you that’s
awakening to you inherent soul. Your soul is always
awake in the sense that it comprehends much more than
a personality does. It exists in eternity, while we
exist in time. So the creation of authentic power
requires aligning your personality with your soul.
“Your personality is a mixture of fear and
love. People don’t usually think of themselves
as fragmented, but they are. And they are often experiencing
different parts of their personality in conflict.
For example, you may walk past a homeless person and
have an impulse to give money and at the same time,
an impulse to run away, and an impulse to say angrily,
‘Get a job!’ This is the experience of
a splintered personality. To create authentic power
requires becoming aware of all the parts of your personality,
then healing the frightened parts and cultivating
the loving parts. Your personality is not separate
from your soul. It’s not possible for a personality
to be separate from its soul. The personality is an
energy tool of the soul, a vehicle that the soul has
adapted for its own purposes to learn within physicality,
within the domain of time and space.”
How quickly can an individual do the healing that
leads to authentic power? “Eventually you will
create authentic power. It’s not an endeavor
at which you can fail or succeed. Everyone will reach
that goal. But when is another story. It may take
you years or it may take you your entire life. It
may take you more lifetimes than one. It doesn’t
have to; it is possible for consciousness to change
in a moment. However, there is a low probability unless
you have the discipline to become aware of what you
are feeling and make choices when unconscious, fear-driven
aspects of your personality come to the foreground.
“There are times when you can be touched by
grace. In the midst of rage or fury, you may suddenly
experience an elevated state in which your hatred
and your need for revenge just disappear. That’s
grace. Grace shows you what your life will be without
fear. But you don’t, in my experience, simply
wake up because there’s been a consciousness
shift. Your fears will return, and it is your job
to create permanently in your life what you have been
shown by grace.
“You might have an intellectual picture of
the world as compassionate and kind, but emotionally
you don’t feel safe in it and you don’t
trust it. So, your experiences of fear will show you
what you actually believe, and then you can learn
to make a different choice. Your job is to identify
those parts of your personality that are frightened.
That’s where emotional awareness comes in. The
frightened parts hurt when you’re angry. They
hurt when you’re jealous, in despair, manic,
depressed, or vengeful. They hurt when you feel superior
or inferior. All of these states are expressions of
fear and powerlessness. To live on the earth is to
experience a deep powerlessness that comes to everyone
in the sense of feeling irrevocably flawed and defective,
of wanting to be loved and not feeling loved, of wanting
to love and not feeling able to love. Or wanting to
be a part of the universe and not really feeling a
part of it. This is very painful, and it’s the
core human experience. In the past, we have responded
to this pain by reaching outward to change the circumstances
around us – to get a bigger cave or a bigger
house, or a vacation home, or a better hairstyle,
nicer clothing, a better paying job, a partner that
makes us feel better, or a car to show off. All of
this is the pursuit of external power. That is no
longer productive. It no longer serves our evolution.
“For example, much of my life, I’ve been
angry. And before I became aware of any of the things
that I’m telling you, whenever I would become
angry I would shout; I would be controlling and dominating.
Often I would lash out with my words or my fists.
And every time, I was making a choice. It didn’t
seem like a choice at the time, because my anger and
what I did when I was angry seemed to be who I was.
But that’s what an unconscious choice feels
like.
“As I learned how to experience anger, I discovered
that while I was feeling its pain I could decide to
do something new – for example, decide not to
speak. Or decide to leave without attempting to control
or dominate the situation. Eventually I learned to
listen to people when I am angry, to really hear what
they’re saying and become interested in them.
These conscious responses create consequences that
are much less painful than those of unconscious reaction.
“The shift that is calling you is the shift
from that of victim to creator. You are a creator.
You create at every moment with every decision. When
you create unconsciously, without your awareness,
the consequences you create are painful. When you
make your choices consciously, when you respond instead
of react—which you can learn how to do by developing
emotional awareness—then you have the freedom
to make a responsible choice and that is a choice
that creates consequences for which you are willing
to assume responsibility.
“When you travel in a direction that your soul
does not want to go, your life begins to empty of
meaning and purpose. In the extreme, you will wonder,
‘Why am I alive? Is this all there is? There
must be more.’ Your life will seem like drudgery,
as though you are trying to make your way up a steep
sand dune and no matter how hard you try, you slip
backward as the sand gives way beneath you. By contrast,
when you are traveling in the direction that your
soul wants to go, your life fills with meaning, purpose,
aliveness, energy, joy, and creativity. You are more
aware and more engaged in your life, in the moment,
and in what you are doing. You are less and less frightened.
“This is not a metaphysical or a mystical experience.
When I’m angry and I become aware in the moment,
I don’t become aware of myself as a mystical
being or an awakened saint, I become aware of myself
as very, very angry and wanting to hurt somebody,
to shout, to dominate. It may be that a Zen master
not only feels everything that you do, but feels it
even more acutely or is even more sensitive to it,
but has developed greater ability to choose responsibly.
“It is not a matter of sitting by, from a point
of superior understanding, watching the old world
die away. Anger does not die naturally. You can’t
simply take a kindly stance and say ‘Let it
go peacefully.’ It won’t go. Instead,
you must challenge your anger by being aware of it
and – while you are aware of it – making
conscious choices. There is no other way. If you don’t
do something about your jealousy or your anger or
your fear, you’re going to die jealous, and
angry, and frightened. You have to change it yourself.
“The question becomes, ‘What am I going
to do while I’m hurting?’ You can’t
just say to yourself, ‘I’m not going to
be angry anymore.’ You can’t turn your
emotions off with a thought. Emotions are not subject
to our cognitive attempts to control them. That won’t
do any good. But what you can do is continue to feel
your anger and while you are feeling those physical
sensations in your body – which is a very refined
way of becoming emotionally aware – you consciously
decide what you’re going to do and say. That
is how you create authentic power. That is the act
of challenging a frightened part of your personality.
And as you challenge that part again and again, you
diminish its ability to influence you.
“So, the creation of authentic power is done
step-by-step, choice-by-choice, decision-by-decision.
You enter into your life. You feel what you are feeling.
And while you are feeling it, you make a choice that
creates consequences for which you are willing to
assume responsibility. As you challenge the frightened
parts of your personality, their power diminishes.
As you simultaneously cultivate the loving parts of
your personality – gratitude, contentment, patience,
caring, and concern – their strength increases.
And that’s how you align your personality with
your soul.
“As you create authentic power in your life,
you increasingly become a vehicle through which the
energy of your soul flows…like the breath of
a musician through a flute. You naturally long for
harmony and look for ways to cooperate and share.
Revering life is your joy. That is the experience
of a whole personality, an authentically empowered
personality. In such a person you cannot tell where
the personality ends and the soul begins. Until then,
there is the journey. It requires your commitment,
and courage. It requires living your life consciously
and intentionally. The tools for creating authentic
power are emotional awareness, responsible choice,
and intuition – the development of trust in
the universe.
“As you develop authentic power, your perceptions
begin to change. So that when you encounter the consequences
that you’ve created in the past that are painful,
you don’t experience them in the same way. They’re
still painful, but you don’t take them so personally.
You know there’s karma at work and that allows
you to detach and make responsible choices so that
you will not recreate what you have created in the
past. All of your experiences – including the
painful experiences – become learning opportunities
for you, rather than bad luck. This is the compassionate
and wise universe in action.
“The shift is happening whether you believe
in it or not, whether you experience it or not. There
is a collective consciousness and each of us determines
what we will contribute to the collective consciousness
through the power of our individual consciousness.
Your decisions have impact far greater than you can
see. They have non-physical ramifications as well
as physical ramifications. And the choices that others
have made for love instead of fear will help you to
make your choices. They will support you on your path
to authentic power. This is how we will all shift
to a planetary consciousness of ‘universal humans’;
still a planet of individuals, each of whom reflects
the values of the soul instead of the fears of the
personality. That is our potential and that is what
we are here to create.”
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The Flip, by Jared Rosen and David Rippe, illuminates
a clear path to a vibrant enlightened world where
millions of people already live and thrive. It describes
in vivid detail and real examples evidence of an upside
down world in decay and a Right Side Up world of authentic
beings bright with possibility.
The Flip is an owner’s manual for the twenty-first
century full of insights, conversations with recognized
experts, thought leaders, and visionaries, and actionable
exercises and tips you can use to begin your own personal
flip.
To read more about The Flip
and additional interviews from other luminaries, experts
and bestselling authors, please visit www.theflip.net
The Flip is available at your
local bookstore or online at
Amazon.com, Barnes
& Noble, Joseph-Beth,
and Borders.
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